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RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
We need to replace our rudder on our RL 28 Pendragon as both pintle on the transom have failed overtime and the lower part of the rudder box is seriously corroded.

1) I'd like the idea of a more balanced rudder as is obtained by Kingley Whites approach (see tips and modifications), to make the boat a bit lighter on the helm. Could anyone comment if I see that correct? or is there a strong case to stick with he original approach where most of the rudder blade is behind the pivoting line through the pintles?

2) Another alternative for a balanced rudder is to make the top pintle seriously offset vs. the transom (see attached photo). This would achieve a similar balance and the helm/tiller would stay in a horizontal plane. Would the transom be able to take the extra load caused by the standoff pintle? assuming that I strengthen the transom with some 10-15 mm hardwood planks on the inside.

Comments would be much appreciated.

Cheers,

joost
joost herweijer25-Jan-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
You don't mention where you are located. If you are in Melbourne my RL24 rudder assembly can be viewed which is typical of the factory design.

Looking at the photos, your rudder and rudder box are not original, I can see several areas that can be improved.

It concerns me that your yacht has sever weather helm, this is not proper and you need to address the weather helm. Changing to a more balanced rudder will not stop the inefficiency caused by the weather helm.

My guess is you have old sails and they are probably not trimmed for efficiency. The forces in the rudder that trim against the weather cause drag which will slow the yacht, stop it accelerating efficiently and make it feel tender as the sails work hard to push against the drag.

I'm not sure whether the RL 28 is like the RL24 swing keel but raising the keel a bit when its fully down brings it back which might reduce the weather helm.

greg28-Jan-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Joost.
Greg is right on all counts, especially look for the cause of the problem, not a quick cure. And please add the following to Greg's list.
Make sure that your mast is not raked aft when the boat is in sailing trim and the back stay has moderate tension.
Make sure that the foot of the mainsail has a camber of no more than one in ten and is sheeted wider in a breeze.
Sail the boat with no more than 30 degrees of heel.
You will then find that there is no excessive weather helm at all.
Rob Legg28-Jan-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Rob/Greg -

PerhapsI there is some misunderstanding due to the fact my writing reflects that I'm sailing-wise still thinking in Dutch (my country of origin until we moved to OZ almost 20 yr ago). The boat is reasonable balanced, I do tend to reef fairly quickly mostly starting with the main, and we mostly sail with max 30 dgr heeling.

With stronger breezes and larger seas, however, the boat gets a bit indirect to steer with the result of the occasional broach (boat turning heavily to luff, despite a reefed main). This is where I thought making the rudder more balanced as per the example that Kingsley gives in tips and modifications could be helpful to make the boat more direct to steer. In addition the vertical line of pivot through the pintles seems attractive for more direct steering.

Joost
joost herweijer2-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Just had some discussions with other RL owners here in SA and decided that it is probably best to stay close to the original design. As per attached drawing (Which I will have to improve for a final version) I think it is best to move out the roddur by a most bit away from the transom the get the line through the pintles a bit more vertical. I also plan to increase the side of the box a bit at the top which would enable to shift the rudder a bit more back and forward. I still pondering as to whether I should allow the rudder to kick (by not closing the lower oft of the box. Comments would be much appreciated.
Joost

joost herweijer2-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
INMA's open backes rudder box. Note the stainless tabs on the blade that stop the box spreading.
http://www.trailersailerplace.com.au/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10139#p108587
greg3-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Thanks a lot Greg:
With a lot of Googling I had found this link on the TS forum yesterday. Did not realize this was what you were referring to earlier. It's an excellent solution. I just think I won't keep the box completely open at the back.
joost herweijer3-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Greg: A few more tweaks further inspired by the pics of INMA. I'm based in SA btw so can't easily stop by (would like to). Going tomorrow to take some more measurements on the boat to see if this all will work.
joost herweijer3-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Joost, when you back into the bottom with the rudder, your design will break something. The open box protects the system from damage.

The bungies hold the blade in place and I've seen 12 knots without issues.

The key to the open box is the two tabs on the blade keeping the cheaks of the box from spreading.

Mine is a factory built rudder and apart from wear on the bungy, its as it left the factory 25 years ago.
greg3-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 
Re: RL 28 rudder repair and modification ???
Hi Joost.
I have an RL28 and my rudderbox is like Gregs. The top gudgeon has been extended to make the blade vertical.I don't have the fancy pully system on the bungy cords tho,just two bits of bungy cord passed around the back of the blade with plastic hose on ti to stop wear.I also have the stainless brackets on the blade to stop the cheeks of the box spreading. Have never had a problem with the set-up and the helm is nice and light.
Cheers John
john lloyd13-Feb-2017    Edit    Delete 

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