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    Welcome to the "New Boat" discussion forum
    Rob is interested in your thoughts on what the new design should be like. Have a look at his drawings and suggested specifications and add your wish list and ideas here.
    Keith Merkley22-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the new boat
    open transom .outboard to slide out on the starboard side and drop to engage.slideing ice box using as step when locked under cocpit floor.no boom aft sheeting.spinnaker launcher internal port side
    kevin troy23-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the New Boat forum
    Kevin.
    The idea of the outboard motor sliding out is worth investigating, I dont like a motor hanging on a transon, and begrudge the weight out there. Have you seen sutch an arrangement? and would it comply with the current rules for trailable yachts.
    Rob24-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Rob

    I just love the lines of your hull along with the bulb drop keel. The only alteration I would suggest would be to give a smaller radius to the transition between stem and keel ( for looks reason only). The rig looks good and I reckon a 20 sq metre RL 24 Coxon rig would go well on her with a carbon fibre retractable pole for the asymmetrical spinnaker. The boat could be sold in two versions (race and club).

    Is it possible to cover the sailing school, club, one design racer, hire fleet and trailer yacht market with one boat. I feel it could be done as you would only have to aim at complying with the type 2 trailer yacht rules which would give you a small cabin up fordí of the mast with the final keel ballast weight being left open to ensure you comply with the new YA rule book self righting test. You would have to put 2 bunks in and seal off the end of the cuddy and have an access hatch.

    I agree with you going for the 20 foot/ 6 metre length market as it should help to keep the final selling price reasonable. I would prefer to go with maybe a heavier than 120 kg bulb keel with a no sitting out rule and with the racing version having a max crew weight stated in the class rules. I would do away with your forward anchor well.

    I agree with everything Kevin Troy wants especially the open transom which must self drain with heaps of people on board. The open back makes it easy to operate the outboard and helps to retract it right into the cockpit when racing. I would do away with the side seats and raise the cockpit floor quite a bit as it is too low at the moment for a sail training boat. The cockpit should look like a smaller version of a modern offshore racing cockpit. There should be lifting lugs fitted to the boat to enable it to be craned out easily.

    I think you would have to seriously look at reducing the cost of manufacturing the bulb keel. I can't see why it could not be moulded in fibre glass in two then joined. Lead shot could then being poured in with resin along with the placement of a galvanised steel square section strength and lifting strut. The lead shot and resin would not be as dense as pure lead but it surely would be cost effective and make the keel easier to make.
    Alastair24-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Just had a look at the drawings.

    I agree that an open transom is good and cut as much out of the back of the cockpit as possible. The outboard on a retractable metal bracket is good per the Spider 24.

    Like the high bow.

    Why not a fixed but removable pole on the bow. The rigging for the retractable stuff is hundreds of $ for no advantage. The pole could be removed for cruising or trailering.

    Like the idea of a bigger higher roach on the mainsail per the RL24 Mk4.

    Not use to looking at drawn lines for hull shape so won't comment.

    Once again I mention a heavier 150kg keel.

    The idea of a cruising and racing version is suspect. Keep it simple, fast and foolproof. The heavier keel, slugged mainsail and good reefing system should make it ideal for novices and experts. Good racers win without the need for special boats.

    As for ideal length, there is no substitute for longer being better if you don't increase the price.

    Why not make it the same shape and rig as the RL24 with a long open transom and all the other features with a single keel design. The RL 24 is a great well developed yacht that has dated design in the transom and cabin. Take the best of the RL24, shorten it if needed and use the best rigs and keel setup.

    Greg
    Greg 24-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Are you all sure its a spider 24 and not a spider 22???
    Alastair24-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Greg. I have taken in to account a 150kg keel in the tentative stability calculations, and was surprised that the extra 50 kg doubled the self righting moment.
    All popular suggestions will be considered in the final drawings.
    Rob25-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Rob that does not make sense the arithmetic must be wrong with the 100kg to 150 kg keel.

    The CoG of the 150kg keel must be closer to the center of bouyancy so the righting moment will be greater but less than 50% greater.

    My main reason for liking the extra ballast is to make the yacht more suitable for short handed sailing where a knockdown is more likely due to less crew on the rail. That logic is something the racers would not see but I am sensitive to the ultimate factors of safety when short handed.

    Greg
    Greg 26-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Greg.
    I allowed all of the extra ballast in the bulb, so in fact the righting moment wiould be even greater than estimated. (all figures quotedare approximate only) , and will vary to some degree in the finished design
    Rob26-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 
    Re: Welcome to the
    Greg

    I am thinking you are making a mistook!!! There is no righting moment when the boat is dead upright. When the boat heels the Centre of Buoyancy moves to leeward and the righting moment keeps increasing as the boat increases its heel with the lead bulb moving out to windward. The maximum righting moment in a mono hull is normally at about 90 degrees when the mast is horizontal over the water. All the above will be effected tremendously by the length of keel and the position of the lead in the keel! I am thinking at the 90 degree position the new keel would probably create more than a 50% increase in righting moment if going from 100 kgs to 150 kgs of bulb.

    At the last national titles we were real happy with the way Dicks drop keel RL24 sailed to windward with our extra water ballast and heavier drop keel in winds up to 15 Knots. We were two up against their 4 up crew. I am sure it was the longer water line length and the improved trim brought about by our RL 24 being deeper in the water that made the difference.

    Alastair27-Aug-2006    Edit    Delete 

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