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An old RL24
My grandfather used to race 24's, Radical Lady II (707?) is sitting in a yard if anyone is interested in a great boat to restore. If i remember rightly there's even a few Norths sails that have never been out of the bag since they were purchased back in the late 80's. The boats a classic, had everything you could imagine on it although it's been stripped for a rebuild that never happened. Email me for more details. Got a feeling there's something about the rules that make it illegal now though, right?

Malcs19-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
Where is boat situated? I am in Queensland. Can be contacted on Mobile 0407760723.
alan19-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
Where is boat situated? I am in Queensland and looking for a project Can be contacted Mobile 0407760723.
Alan19-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
The boat is in Eden, south coast of new south wales.
Malcs19-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
Have you got any pictures of the condition of hull ,rigging etc, still interested,give me a contact no. & I will contact you direct to find out more info.
alan20-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24

I accidentally spotted Radical Lady 2 in a yard in Eden close to the main highway when I was travelling North a few years ago. I turned around and went back and had a good look at her and took some photos.

I disagree with Malcs that she is a classic and worth rebuilding and I think I would be correct in saying that she would not comply with the set of class rules that is in this website at the moment. When I saw her back then she was in a bad way just lying there with all her deck fittings, hatches etc missing.

Malcs is right when he says that she has plenty of go fast gear. I liked the twin rudders, her drop keel, mast and some parts that were lying around. If she is also loaded up with unused North sails she would be a good buy if the price was right.

Someone told me that there was a real bun fight over Radical Lady 2 at the AGM the year she turned up at the National Titles at Lake Wellington.
Alastair20-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
There are a couple of photos of Radical Lady II in the gallery under "Pictures posted by Ross Corben" here http://rlyachts.net/gallery-RL24.asp
Jack Lucas was/is a helluva nice and generous bloke with a deep interest in RL24 development. There is no doubt that when he launched RLII it created quite a stir. It is a legal boat, though. Either it gained a "one off" approval from the Association or the approval for deck modifications only applies after the date that that rule came in. I thought at the time it carried too much gear making it heavy but if it's been stripped for a rebuild and is done pretty simply, it being a kevlar foam sandwich construction it should come out quite light and stiff. As a pure racer, I think it would be a good boat.
James Shannon21-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
The comment below on Radical lady 2 was found beside the photo of her in this website’s gallery section. I can only assume that it has been written by Ross.

I Quote:

-------I took the last shot of Radical Lady 2 in the car park at Lake Wellington after hostilities had concluded. If you look carefully, you'll note that the boat had a twin rudder set-up, just one of many features Jack incorporated into the boat. It also had a hydraulic ram under the mast so that rig tension could be varied at any time and, of course, the controversial "cuddy" in lieu of the normal cabin/deck of a standard RL24. As the previous photo shows, this arrangement allowed Jack to sail comfortably with seven on board whereas the rest of us found it difficult to cope with 4. It also explains why the Association Class Rules now require RL24's to look like RL24's and why Association permission is required before any modifications to hull or deck will be accepted.-------------

I myself disagree with the James Shannon's post above and the quoted comment.

The class association or a class measurer does not have the power to issue a ‘one off’ measurement certificate. If you enter a TY that does not comply with its CBH declared measurements or it class rules you could be protested and disqualified. Anyone on the boat knowing about the non compliance could under rule 69 be placed on a major misconduct charge.

I think that it would be impossible for Radical lady 2 to ever comply with the RL 24 class rules, but any future owner of the boat could apply to the appropriate CBH committee for a modified boat rating

As I have said before it is the National Associations job to clearly define what they want a RL 24 to be and then to produce a clear and concise set of class rules to protect that standard. The current YA RRS rule book states in rule 78 that it’s the owner or the person in charge of the boat is held responsible for the boat to be in compliance with its class rules. In this case had the proper procedures been followed back then and a protest lodged and followed through with, there would have been no need for any ‘hostilities’.
Alastair21-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24
Given that I am of a faint-hearted and timid disposition, I wouldn't normally choose to step between Alistair and James. However, as my name has arisen in connection with the RL24, Radical Lady 2, I am of the view that a few words from me by way of explanation and clarification may be useful..
To the best of my knowledge, Radical Lady 2 was launched some time during 1985. I first saw her in Dec.'85 at Portland where the Victorian Association was holding its State titles before the RL circus headed for Brighton/Seacliffe in S.A. for the 1986 National championships. The boat suffered from teething troubles at Brighton but won the Toad of Barmera Trophy by way of consolation. Some consolation! However, she did go on to perform well at titles in Gladstone in '87, Eden in '88 and Lake Wellington in '89 to name just a few. In fact she presented at more Nationals in just a few years than many of us attend in a lifetime. At every one of these events she competed as a legitimate RL24 and would again today if she returned to racing rigged as she was then. This situation pertains because she complied with the letter of the Class Rules as they existed at the time she was launched. Rule 2 stated the following:" HULL. Strictly one design. Hull form to R.LEGG registered design produced from mould approved by the designer ". The Rules made no mention of the deck or topsides and with the benefit of hindsight, we can see now that there was a large loophole in the rules ripe for exploitation. It happened and it would be true to say there weren't many members harbouring sanguine sentiments about Radical Lady 2 at the time. As a result, the Association put Rule 4 into place at the AGM held at Eden in 1988, action which effectively closed the loophole. However, because the Association wasn't and still isn't into the retrospective application of rules, Radical Lady 2 retains its status a bona fide RL24, whether we like it or not. I want to conclude on this note. I think we are straying into shoaling waters when we challenge the authenticity of anothers' boat, particularly when such remarks can have a deleterious impact on the commercial value of that boat. It is especially dangerous when the criticisms are made in the absence of the facts.

Ross Corben23-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24

Thanks for the info on Jack Lucas’s boat Radical Lady 2. I raced against Jack in at least three events and noticed that his boats were all rather different and possibly a wee bit controversial. I can tell you that some NSW RL 24 owners copped a bit of flack over Jack’s different RL24s, this peaked when Jack won his division in the Marley Point event using a cutter rig with an extra flying jib. He came back the next year using the same rig but this time he was bailed up in the dark by some RL 24 owners and other TYs who threatened him with protest action. I remember shinning a dolphin torch on his extra jib when he sailed past us at Hollands Landing and I voiced a proper and legal objection. He heard us and replied stating something like ‘get in the queue with all the rest’. I am not sure but I think he may have retired from the race or did not sign off, as he was not mentioned in the results!

I stand by what I have said in my previous post in this thread and now add that I feel the association has to be consistent, even handed and comply totally with a set of declared rules. Why should RL2 and Spud Gun and other one off approvals benefit from a grandfather clause when all other Rl24s owners are not given the same privilege? I do not think that anyone should at the present time, be stating that RL2 is legal and complies with any version of the rules, without the benefit of an inspection by a competent measurer. When I saw her many years ago she was in a bad way and had the appearance of having been hulked.

All my posts in this thread up till now have been addressed to Alan and you will notice that none were addressed to James, so I do not feel you need to step in between us in this matter. This, along with your warning at the end of your post has left me thinking that you are on the wrong tack.

This is a forum and I say that ‘Malcs’, in mentioning possible problems with owning RL2, is to be commended for trying to do the right thing by any possible future purchaser of Radical Lady 2. I repeat what I have said in previous posts and that is, I take responsibility for anything I say in this forum and when it comes to sailboat racing I take legal advice from the YA Racing Rules of Sailing.

I may be up in Eden on Sunday on my way to Bowen in Queensland (It will depend on the temps. in Cooma) if so, would you like me to phone ‘Malcs’ and have a look at RL2. If he is in agreement I could photograph her and send you the ‘pics’ and then you could maybe pass them to the three association measurers.

I think we should all check out the rule book and find out if it is illegal to make allegations about a sailboat competitor outside an official protest. This process gives the right of appeal to a higher authority to all parties involved and is designed to keep any bad feeling to a minimum and stop any hostility (at AGMs).

Alastair26-Jun-2009    Edit    Delete 
Re: An old RL24

It would appear that we have reached a happy imbroglio. You think I’m on the wrong tack and I think you miss the point. Like you, I stand by what I wrote in my post on this thread dated 23/06/09. Then, as now, I simply contend that RL2 was a legitimate RL24 when it raced in National Championships in the late 1980’s and early ‘90’s because it complied with all aspects of the Class Rules (as they were then) when it was originally measured. I further contend that the issue of its topsides arrangement is not now of any consequence because changes to the Class Rules, however pertinent, cannot be applied retrospectively. To do so would be to deny any affected party fundamental natural justice and as far as I’m aware, that has never been a practice tolerated in the RL24 Association. I am not sure what you mean by the term “grandfather clauses” but to the best of my knowledge, nothing resembling such an instrument exists in the Association’s Constitution or rules. Since the introduction of Rule 4 in 1988, any member of the Assocn. has had the right to approach the membership with a proposal to modify the form of their boat. It is then up to the membership (not the Executive or the Measurers) at an AGM to decide whether or not such a proposal should be allowed to proceed. As Arfur Daley would remark, “you can’t say fairer than that”! No one gets privileges that all members can’t share and I defy anyone to demonstrate that that is not the case.

While I’m on my high horse, a couple of other points. Yes, I did notice that your posts were addressed to Alan but as both you and James had raised my name and, as I need no reminding that this site is a forum, I took the opportunity to use it as such. Did you notice that my post was not addressed to you or anyone in particular? My comments were intended for general consumption because I think the matter and principle at hand is important. I also state categorically, that I have no brief for RL2. As I mentioned in my last post on this thread, she caused a great deal of angst among many RL skippers, me included but if she should make a come-back, so long as she “measures” in terms of her sail areas, spar lengths, weight of keel etc, etc, I and everyone else will have to grit our teeth and welcome her.

Regarding your recollections of the Marlay Point Overnight Race episode, you are quite correct – she was eliminated from the results on protest. It was the late Bruce Castles who lodged a protest based on the fact that RL2’s skipper had entered her as a boat complying with a set of recognized Class Rules but she was subsequently observed (by you among many others as you note) using a headsail plan contrary to those Rules. The Lake Wellington Yacht Club heard the protest during the week following the event and found the protest justified. RL2 was disqualified but her skipper chose to appeal the ruling and the matter was referred to the VYF Appeals Committee. This body found in favour of the Club and the disqualification stood.

Alistair, I shant be commenting on this matter again in this forum. If you wish to pursue it further with me, I’d be happy to take your call at home (you have my number) or we’ll have a coffee sometime when I’m down in Paynesville.

Ross Corben7-Jul-2009    Edit    Delete 

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