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Alastair! Alastair! Alastiar.
Alastiar. Just ease your sheets for a minute, you are in danger of running aground. How about just entering your boat in the 2005 nationals and give the asociation a chance to sort it out, so far they have done a pretty good job and I am sure they will come to a sensable conclusion. The last thing that is needed is another division.
Rob Legg21-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
Hi Rob
Rob, Alistair is not the only one responsible for the recent discussions about the rules for the RL24 class. I am inclined to agree with you that slowing down and giving the association some time to consider the discussions will help the situation.

I do not agree with you that the RL24 does not need another division. The current structure of the RL24 rules and the use of those rules is creating unfair conditions for competition within the class and in mixed fleet racing. If I can provide an example, original Mk4s like Kandyman and my yacht INMA do not have a suitable class to provide fair competition. The existance of Mk1 and Mk2 RL24s with stripped hulls and heavily modified hulls featuring drop keels with bulbs makes successfully racing an original Mk4 near impossible.

The handicaps given to RL24 Mk4s in Victorian mixed fleet racing appears to be based on a bulb keel yacht's measurement and performance.

The association has failed to protect the integrity and value of Mk4 yachts by grouping Mk4s with heavily modified Mk1 and Mk2 yachts.

I do believe there is a place for development of RL24s but it should not be at the expense of owners of valuable Mk4s or the rest of the class.

I hope the association restores the integrity of the RL24 classes by creating a new modified division and maintain a division for combined standard Mk1, Mk2 Mk3 and a separate division for standard Mk4s.

The handful of heavily modified RL24s are more trouble than they are worth if they make racing standard RL24s impractical.

We do not need more rules, we do need fairer competition for the Australian fleet of RL24s.

Once again, thanks for great yachts.
Greg (RL 24 No 434)
Greg21-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
Drop Keels
Greg, you are starting to get boring. Had you done your homework, you would know these facts.
1. Drop keels existed in Mark I rls well before your "standard" Mark IVs were produced. The decision to allow them was made at the meeting in Albury Wodonga in about 1981 and among the first boats to install them were Sundance from Gladstone, Pegasus from Victoria, Ohau Rua from Victoria, and I believe my boat Warrigal from SA. THEN, drop keels were produced in the factory, among the first being Sequoia, Lowana V, and Dump Truck.
2. Keel modifications have also been made for many years. Bruce Castles put small wings on the keel of Pegasus in about 1985. Guess what, he didn't win, although he was a great sailor and had a crack crew. Someone sailed better. Simon Walsh put his bulb on his keel for the Nationals in about 1995 or 1996. Guess what, he also didn't win.
3. The RL24 CBH has hardly changed, if at all, since the advent of bulbs on keels. The damage was done well before by a group of sailors, including my father, who improved their systems and crewwork to a point where they became dominant in open class racing for a period of around 5 years.

The only way to improve your success at racing is to improve your boat handling and crew work. Until you learn how to set a spinnaker (see your comments 25 May 2004) you can hardly blame lack of success on bulb keels or modified Mark I boats using them, and there is only one. Wings is a Mark IV.
If you don't want to join the Association and race as an RL under the conditions as they have been for over 30 years, then can I suggest that you look to one design racing and buy a Boomerang.
James Shannon22-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
In reply to Rob
Rob

Thanks for your reply. My wife totally agrees with you, she had already told me that I had now reached the 'put up or shut up' stage in the dispute. So really I was intending to shut up and move on. I tried last year to correct what I believe to be wrong in the class rules and I failed. It would appear that I am achieving more in a very short time by using this web site and by taking on a Troublesome Tom role!

It all started when I was pulled up by the sailing captain in my club and told that I was cheating using a filler and that my rating was going from 725 to 760! No protest, no instruction to remove the filler, nothing. I got a wee bit fed up with every man and his dog telling me what was illegal about my boat and being called a cheat!

I should not have come back to the class after a long break. I am very disappointed with the change of direction that the class association has taken. Way back in the eighties my work then made it very difficult for me to attend national titles but nothing would stop me racing every week in a strong RL24 fleet at Port Kembla Sailing Club. My favorite race ever will always be 'The Marley Point'. We used to have 30 Rl 24 in the race. I remember one year coming down the lake at full displacement speed under spinnaker in the moonlight with other Rl 24's hour after hour magic! magic! magic!

I think there should be only the one division in the rl24 fleet. I am happy with Para Handy's swing keel boat speed against most Mark 4 RL 24s especially in the higher wind range races.

The way out of my problem would be to convert Para Handy over to drop keel. I have a bulb drop keel with trim tab on my drawing board at the moment. This, along with a new suit of North sails and a new lightweight cockpit should get us up there near the leaders!

regards

Alastair Russell

Para handy

Alastair Russell22-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
Rules???????
I read the preamble on the introductory page of this site and felt that this was a club or whatever that was proud and keen to own an RL24. My yacht Amubuscade 2 has 4 berths that you can sleep on at any time, I can cook you a meal, I can save you in a storm and I can cart you about the country side staying in caravan parks! To me that is what trailer sailing is all about!
Thank you Rob for a GREAT boat I WILL NOT be attending the sailing in Victoria. Thank you for the invitation, I did consider it but with all the rubbish that has been disscused here I beleive the integrity of the orignal class has been lost. I agree with you Rob every one take a breath an look at Robs design and not what you would like to do go fast. Isn,t that what twelve metre racing is all about, devolpment?
Martyn Peasey
Martyn Peasey22-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
To all.
There i was thinking for years thatRob.Legg's main claim to fame was his status as Australia's pre-eminent yacht designer. Now I find he is also a man possessed of great sagasity, wit and an acute understanding of human nature. He also has a wonderful capacity to say what many of us wish we had thought to say ourselves and he does it with such an elegant and economical use of words, too. Well said Young Fella - hope to see you again soon. Ross.
Ross22-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
To Bernie and James
I would liked to remind you both that this is an open forum for every one to put forward their views on Rl's. I think you have both overstepped the line with Greg and that you should both apologise.

Greg gives me the expression that he is an experianced technical racer from another class. I may not agree with his views on the rl 24 but I do feel his input to this forum should be logged in as a positive.

James you will have to stop being one eyed or biased when pushing your version of the RL 24 history. I think we should use this forum to build up an ACCURATE developement record and history of the Rl24. We could ask the man himself, past competitors and modifiers to ajudicate and correct our errors.


Alastair Russell23-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
RL24 history
Alistair, please point out the innaccuracies in my "version" of the history of RL24s. Please also point out where I have been "biased or one-sided". Otherwise the apology should be coming from you.

My contribution to this discussion has simply been to defend the integrity of the RL Association against unreasonable and unfounded attacks from people who have either not been members of the Association, or have not been participants in any of the events it has sponsored.

If you wish to alter the class rules, the appropriate course is to join the association and to put forward a proposal in writing to be discussed and voted upon at the next Annual General Meeting. Being a member of a number of sporting clubs and associations, this procedure is not exactly uncommon. If you are then successful in getting the changes you want, the decent thing would then be to participate and support the association thereafter. Most people would in fact take the time to participate in association activities to gain some real experience of its workings before proposing wholesale changes.

The manner in which you have conducted this debate has served only to discourage the participation of so far 2 new owners and potential members.

You may wish to contact some of the association elders (with repect to them) and find out whose number it is that they call when they can't recollect something involving RLs.
James Shannon23-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 
Reply to James
James

Quieten down and take it easy, I see you are shouting again!

I am a member of your association I joined last year and I was also a member of the NSW RL 24 association for many years. I am sorry James but I am of the opinion that it was Peter Yeomans from NSW who transformed the RL 24. It was his ability to get Mike Coxon of North sails, Peelgrene masts and Holm bros foils all working for him that did the trick. I have some of the magazine articles that were written about his boats. I still have the North sail Rl 24 tuning document that was given to me by Mike Coxon. I thought Peter used only Holm Bros foils but you say thats not so!

I raced against Peter many times and it was only when I changed my boat to mirror his that Para Handy took off like the proverbial rocket machine. 20 years later here in Vic I am still happy with my boats performance against newer drop keel boats. Speak to the Rainey Boys they have raced her. They will tell you that she only has NSW gizzmo and gadjets fitted to her! Oh I am sorry James I forgot to mention that I would not let the boys see my secret keel filler!!

You do realise James that the Rl 24 has different CBH ratings for different States and you do know that the CBH rating system is a part design and part performace handicapping system.

I am a member of your association and I am still waiting on you to send me a copy of the 2003 class rules!

When I joined the club here in Paynesville two years ago I had the only Rl 24. We have now 4 with Big Deal arriving next month and I have heard that another member has bought one up in Sydney and it will be here for the titles (that makes 6).

Anyway James if you're down here in Paynesville this summer on a tuesday night you can helm Para Handy with or without the filler in the no extras race. You will of course have to promise me that you will try to beat the Rainey boys!


Alastair Russell23-Jul-2004    Edit    Delete 

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